First Impressions backer 1608

General questions about the printer and printer software.

First Impressions backer 1608

Postby white111 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:33 pm

Ibox first impressions

Unpack and config:
1) Packaging - No issues, Box sustained a little shipping damage, no issue with printer
2) Startup - Power up good, LCD good
3) Wifi Configuration, using ATT u-verse -Auto Setup failed, I had never used the
WPS button on this router and finally figured out that it was disabled by default, I enabled the WPS function, but by then I had tried the USB stick and neither worked.
4) USB stick config - Edited the configuration file wpa_configuration.txt as requested and when through the process as requested, no indication seen if the process worked. It did not since I still could not get online.
5) Added Monitor and Keyboard - Wifi gui was not showing the Wifi Dongle
6) Tested wifi dongle in a windows tablet - worked
7) Debug - eventually found the windows editor(wordpad) used to edit the config file had left garbage character at the beginning of the config file and "^M" at the end of each line. This means the USB config process somewhat worked, but was failing due to a corrupted file.
8) Removed the garbage characters from the configfile, the gui then picked up the wifi dongle and connected to wifi.

First Print:
1) Little confused about how to insert the dish/VAT - finally figured out the included screw driver was to loosen the clamps - thumb screws might be more appropriate in this area.
2) Noticed the tape in the dish, but there was no indication to align with LCD under the dish
3) Lowered the build plate, little concerned about lowering too far and breaking something(vat or LCD)
4) Added resin and too heed about warnings to not overfill, thanks for this :)
5) Started a print using a skull, printer silently worked except for sticking noises
6) Found that the print had stuck to the vat and I thought it was the tape causing the problem, removed the tape and square blob
7) Realized my mistakes with the tape later
8) Replaced the Tape with the spare included(Thanks), but I scratched it when trying to smooth out on the VAT. It was also pretty difficult to get the backing off.
9) reinstalled dish/VAT with tape aligned to LCD
10) reprint failed, did not stick to build plate
11) additional reprint failed, did not stick to build plate (each time I got a square blob stuck to VAT[square is the shape of the base printed])
12) Roughed up the base plate with sandpaper, just light scuffing
13) Reprint worked, I printed the skull attached to the base plate in a recognizable form, maybe a little squished.
14) Printed the Chess Queen - worked :)

First Impressions/improvements:
1) Totally understand this is a new product and overall this was a great out of box experience. Can it be improved, yes it can, but good job!
2) More description of the VAT installation and the tape needed(probably in videos, but I just went off the quick start like normal impatient person.
3) Usage of the USB stick for configuration more resilient to various editors(a SED and DOS2UNIX cleanup?)
4) There may be a slight misalignment of the build base to the VAT, but I'm not sure this causes a problem at this point.
5) I would like to print with less base plastic if possible, this is a waste and will need to be cut away. If needed can it have options for breakaway?
6) ability to USB from a computer and by pass networking
7) Seal the top using a Teflon tape that is replaceable
8) Deeper VATs for more print volume
9) Can food color dyes be added? may experiment myself
10) Recommended cleaning methods for printer and prints
11) Upgrade path for Raspberry PI, can a new PI be installed? is there any benefit?
12) Larger LCD install?
13) Can blue painters tape be used on the build plate for better adhesion. I will experiment at some point.

Joe

Ordered more supplies today, looking forward to more experimentation :)
white111
 
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Re: First Impressions backer 1608

Postby Xios1306 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Thank you for your in-depth review.
And a response to the improvements you suggested :
white111 wrote:First Impressions/improvements:
1) Totally understand this is a new product and overall this was a great out of box experience. Can it be improved, yes it can, but good job!
2) More description of the VAT installation and the tape needed(probably in videos, but I just went off the quick start like normal impatient person.
3) Usage of the USB stick for configuration more resilient to various editors(a SED and DOS2UNIX cleanup?)
4) There may be a slight misalignment of the build base to the VAT, but I'm not sure this causes a problem at this point.
5) I would like to print with less base plastic if possible, this is a waste and will need to be cut away. If needed can it have options for breakaway?
6) ability to USB from a computer and by pass networking
7) Seal the top using a Teflon tape that is replaceable
8) Deeper VATs for more print volume
9) Can food color dyes be added? may experiment myself
10) Recommended cleaning methods for printer and prints
11) Upgrade path for Raspberry PI, can a new PI be installed? is there any benefit?
12) Larger LCD install?
13) Can blue painters tape be used on the build plate for better adhesion. I will experiment at some point.


  1. Thank you for your kind words. We're trying to improve the user experience each day here. Changes are being made with backwards compatibility in mind.
  2. There are some videos on our YouTube channel that you can access by clicking on the YouTube button on the printer web GUI on the settings page.
  3. Any text editor should work, there's plans for a web tool to make the supplicant file in the works. That should grossly oversimplify the task
  4. We do test if the build plate is flush with the screen but there might be slight misalignment that can't be avoided. You can manually adjust this buy loosening the carriage screws twisting the build plate assembly and motoring it down without the vat to see if it's flush and then tightening the screws in place again. However you may risk cracking the carriage altogether if you put too much force.
  5. Sure we'll see if we can add in a new foundation that meets your needs
  6. Communicating Via USB will require a lot of changes to the production code and not to mention adding new code to run the already host mode USB in client mode and a whole list of other problems. We also need to write drives to make the computer communicate to the printer keeping in mind the plethora of operating systems in the market. So I can say with great certainty that this will not be implemented any time soon. However think about it any device with a web browser can run our printer. I think that much flexibility is plenty. I run test prints off my phone as i leave the building. It saves to much time and feels oddly satisfying.
  7. The FEP tape we use is the only one that works best. We had done a lot of testing with this and the tape was the winner with ease of re-installation, reliability and print quality in mind although it was one of the more expensive solutions out there.
  8. Truth be told I think our printer was designed around the vat, I don't think we can change that
  9. I think it could work but I'm not a chemist I do software, I should ask our resin engineer on that one. But you're welcome to try. And remember with dyes less is more, too much pigment can affect print quality and reliability.
  10. Like I've said here before air dry and place the prints outside in the sun to make them rock solid. You could try a fine grit sand paper and smoothing the print down.
  11. You can upgrade to the B+, that gives you more RAM. The upgrade to the Raspberry Pi 2 B is a better choice, but I still am working on getting it to work with our WiFi adapter.
  12. Nope this one will have to be a new printer, It's still in the planning stages keep an eye on the announcements section for more information on this
  13. The adhesive on the tape will most likely be dissolved in the resin and the print will fail, but don't take my work for it, like I said I'm a software guy, I'm only throwing educated guesses here.
Harsha B C
Intern - Computer Engineer
harsha@iBoxPrinters.com
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Xios1306
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Re: First Impressions backer 1608

Postby ron.kundla » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:06 pm

As one of the super early beta folks, I'd like to chime in with my comments to the questions posed by @white111:

2) Vat install itself is kind of intuitive with the holders and the screwdriver, but maybe the alignment of the tape relative to the LCD and the build plate isn't. I have had success replacing the rectangular tape with custom round cutouts that remove the need to worry about position of the vat relative to everything else. That might be something iBox can look at to make the world a little easier for everyone.

3) If the code is written correctly, or agnostic to termination, the use of CR/LF won't matter. I think there just has to be an easier way to get the wireless up and running. I think I am one of the few that got WPS to work correctly on my network.

4) I have seen this misalignment of the build plate to the vat. The built arm assembly doesn't always present itself perpendicular to the build plate. One way to fudge this is to leave the twist knob slightly loose so the build plate can sit flush to the vat. However, there would be concerns of stability. I actually took apart my build arm to reseat the hex nut inside that rides the z-axis screw. That helped me get better alignment, but if I was to torque the build arm or over seat the build plate to the vat, I might move the nut out of alignment because there is some slop in the acrylic stack up around the nut. Fixes to the acrylic or selection of a taller nut would fix this problem.

A good way to test for a complete build plate to vat alignment is to just print a 10 layer 100um 40x20 foundation. On build plates with alignment issues, the foundation will not measure 1 mm thick at all four corners or there will be missing material at one or more of the corners.

5) There are a few different foundation types, including one that is the same size as the layer 0 of the object being printed. I found in my experience that I needed to use the 40x20 rectangular foundation to make sure that my print would resist the suction forces the passive peeling system is trying to counteract. My experiments with PDMS in the vat no longer require a foundation for them to stick to the build plate. So, as the sayings go, YMMV. If you want to breakaway, you can try to elevate and print with supports. I have not had much luck with supports on the iBox in my testing.

6) That would be nice, but the driver development for host services would have sent them back a while. Leveraging the existing IP infrastructure allowed iBox to rapidly develop the product. If anything I wish it had a wired RJ45 network connector since I'd use that instead of wireless.

7) I've suggested some sort of thin cover glass to protect the LCD film from damage. Yes, it is another item in the light path, but an extra second or two of exposure versus the RMA claims due to mistaken damage would be a fine tradeoff.

8) I think they could go to a deeper vat, there are petri dishes with a few more millimeters in depth, but the hole cutout in the acrylic is very specific for these corning cover dishes. I'd hope that in future builds they look into some different options that would have better production consistency, like the Pyrex version.

9) You cannot mix water-soluble food coloring into a oil-like resin. It will just bead up and not mix properly. MakerJuice does offer different pigment types, but you have to think of it like paint. I tried mixing blue an red resin to hope for purple and all I got was a brownish red :-( So maybe you can't think of it like paint...

10) Clean printer case with lightly moistened paper towel. I clean my vat with isopropyl alcohol and then soapy water. (I also use iospropyl alcohol to help remove stuck prints) I clean my aluminum build plate with isopropyl alcohol. I don't touch my LCD film if I can help it, but I use a microfiber towel. If you spill resin on it, be very careful! It is better to be extra careful and not spill than to rush things and get sloppy. I avoid getting isopropyl alcohol on any of the acrylic due to various concerns that it might damage it.

For prints, I put the print into a isopropyl alcohol bath for 2 minutes, gently agitating the container to help release all the resin. Sometimes I use a water dip after the alcohol. Make sure the print is tack-free at this point. If it is still tacky, rinse in isopropyl alcohol again. I use compressed air from a can or a compressor to remove the remaining alcohol or water. Either place the print outdoors in the sun for a few hours, or use a nail curing UV box as seen online for 30-60 minutes.

11) There is a Raspberry Pi B+ option for new purchases, requires new custom acrylic I believe. Speed increases and more interfaces would always be appreciated.

12) That is a tough subject. If they can get a finer resolution monochrome LCD that can pass UV light without falling apart, this printer would go from neat to awesome. However, that seems to be a custom design that would cost lots of dollars to engineer. Color LCDs could be used, but there are concerns about how much light they pass due to filtering, etc. Also, the overall size of the printer could change while moves it out of the pocket portable category and into something more desktop. There is another vendor who is claiming to use larger LCD panels in their large format resin printer. Price is also 20x the price of the Nano. ;-)

13) This won't work like a FDM printer. The goal is to get the resin to not cure at the immediate surface, but cure behind it towards the build plate. That allows the peel to happen with minimal stress. The FEP tape works to prevent it from permanently sticking, but there is some resistance that you can see during the peel process (popping sounds also indicate the forced separation of the print from the vat). Scuffing up the build plate to give the resin more nooks and cranies to fill, or changing the peel mechanism to something less violent will help keep prints on the plate and off the vat.
Super Early Beta Adopter
"I don't work for iBox, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express" ;)
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